An Interview with Keshav Bhai
by Savita Kini and L.S.Aravinda
transcript by Girish Bhat

Keshav Bhai is an adivasi from Nimgavan village in Maharashtra. He is an NBA activist and runs a Jeevanshala in Nimgavan. The interview was conducted during Savita's visit to the Narmada valley earlier this year.

Savita: How were things in the village before the dam?

Keshav Bhai: We didn't have much interaction with the city. We used to farm for a living, we had mother Narmada for water, the forests used to provide us with wood and various kinds of fruits. We used to grow grain on the farm that would last the whole year.Most of the farming was on the Narmada flood plains (after the rains and after the waters had receded). It was easy to farm here, since the land was flat and there was not much clearing to be done. We did some farming near the huts too.

Savita: Were all these mountains covered by forests?

Keshav Bhai : Yes, 30 years back this place was covered with dense forests. The forests were destroyed about 10-15 years back. I will explain why that happened. Before the forests were destroyed we used to cut small portions for farming. But the jungle was not our enemy after all we are forest people.We used to cut very few trees.

Aravinda: How were things here in your childhood? Before the government officers arrived? Was the culture very different?

Keshav Bhai: This used to be a very small village. There were just two families (Tadvi and Vasava). The population was about 50-60. Now the population has grown to about 700-800. The forest was very dense back then. There were many wild animals including tigers. It was a very dangerous task for a man to go to the neighbouring village across the mountain. Men used to wear "langoti" (a single piece loin cloth), nobody wore shirts. I was about 10/11 years old when Archarya Vinobha Bhave visited our village. He arranged a meeting in our village. At that time there were a lot of mango trees in the village and the meeting was held under the shade of these trees. About 100-150 attendees came from outside our village. Vinobhaji told us about the need to educate ourselves and learn about the world. He wanted a school to be started in our village. One guruji volunteered to settle down in our village and start a school.The first batch of students were taught till grade three. They were sent to Mulgi and Survani village for higher grade education. One of the boys from this batch finished 12th grade and is now a teacher in a village in the Amravati district. Getting kids to go to school was tough, kids had to be gathered from each family. So guruji started an ashram called Reva Gopal ashram in Namgavan. Lot of kids from nearby villages also came to the ashram. There must have been about 150 kids. I studied here till grade 3. Then because of some problems the ashram had to be closed. But Guruji wanted us to learn further. So we were sent to Adandi village near pune. We were supposed to learn music (bhajans), arts etc... In Adandi we had feed ourselves in addition to going to school.

Savita: So you had to work to make a living?

Keshav Bhai : No, we used to beg for food in the mornings. We would have to ask about 10-12 families. Some would give 1 roti, some would give 1/2 roti..We used to go to school around 11 am. We would get out at around 5pm and then relax a bit. I studied here till the 7th grade. At that point the Sarpanch of our village did not like the idea of us kids studying further. He was scared of education, he felt that education would go to our heads. So he started scaring the parents with stories about how the teacher would sell their kids away. When I came home for Holi holidays, my parents refused to send me back. The only schools in this area were in Mulgi and Survani which were far away. So my education was stopped here. A couple of years later, Guruji, who was now a Maharaj came back to the village. He convinced the villagers again about the need for education. At this time, lot of the villagers were addicted to alcohol made from Mahua. Maharaj worked hard and got the people to stop this habit. He started a school again. At that time we approached the district office requesting for a proper school in our village. But the government ignored our requests. The Maharaj collected all the youth (15-25 yrs old) in the village and started teaching them to read, write sign their names. I am currently trying to teach the people in the village myself.

Around 1980, government officials started arriving for surveying the area.

Aravinda: Were the forests there in 1980?

Keshav Bhai : Yes, they were there. The forests started disappearing around 88-90.

Aravinda: When the surveyors came what was the reaction of the villagers?

Keshav Bhai: The surveyors told us that when the dam is built we would be compensated land for land, house for house. We would be provided with education and other amenities. The dam was being built in Jalsindhi. I used to work for that project. After 3 years, Morarji Desai who was the PM then, came and told us that there were a lot of dams being planned on Narmada. I didn't know that. The one in Jalsindhi was by the govts of Maharashtra and MP and would be submerged by the SSP project in Gujarat. So they halted the construction of the dam in Jalsindhi after sinking on crores of rupees. He told us that the SSP was the for the future generations, for the nation. Gujarat needs a lot of water and electricity. He promised to compensate us with flat land, nice houses and a lot of money. We were happy at that time.

Aravinda: You believed the government then?

Keshav Bhai: Yes, we did. Around 1985, the Bagul committe was here to survey the land and determine how much loss each person would incur in terms land and other property. We have been having this land for generations. And we wanted this land to be registered by the officials. The officials were using this to exploit us. The government has sent about 50 officers.This turned to be very expensive for us because we had to host these people. These people demanded they we provide them with chicken and alcohol. The village had to provide them with about 10-12 chickens and 4-5 pots of alcohol everyday. They also extorted money from us. If anyone in the village had to get their land or house registered they would have to pay Rs 50. They would also force us to sell out goats and cattle. They would make us sell a goat for Rs 50 when the market value of the goat is Rs800. Medha Patkar and Vasudha Digambar arrived on the scene around this time. We placed our issues in front of them. Medhatai and others took photographs of these officials when they were drunk. This scared the officials enough to pack their bags and leave. We started getting organized. We decided not to feed this people with chicken and alcohol, even if they didn't do the survey. We also stopped paying the forest officers. Villagers from different villagers started to get together. Maharashtra has about 33 villages that would be submerged by the dam. We figured that if we approached the government as a group then they would listen to us. The government was afraid now. We asked them to show us the land for compensating the 33 villages in Maharashtra. We organized district level meetings with the government officials every three months. There were about 8 representatives from each village. After three years of negotiations, nothing happened.

Aravinda: Who represented you?

Keshav Bhai: The Sangathan.

Aravinda: Not the Andolan?

Keshav Bhai: No, the Andolan had not started yet. When we came to the conclusion later that compensation was not possible, we decided to organize dam affected people from all three states (Gujarat, Maharashtra and MP). This became the Narmada Bachao Andolan.

Aravinda: A lot of people still believe that of you are compensated adequately then you can make progress. What do you say?

Keshav Bhai: We do not believe that development for us is possible through displacement and compensation. People have been leaving their land since 1992. The government has been sending the displaced people to faraway places like Sholapur and Gujarat. One of our demands was that we be relocated close to our villages. We do not want to lose our roots. The government tried to compensate us with land close by, but there were a lot of problems. The provided land was often fragmented. If a person were to receive 5 acres, he would get 3 acres in one village and 2 acres in another. We do not want that. In the Fatehpur Amda village, the compensation officer pleaded with us to look at the land. So we went with him. The land looked good, but I noticed that there were some banana and sugarcane planted already. We went to the people living in nearby huts, who were also adivasis, and asked about these plants. They told us that the bananas belonged to them and sugar cane belonged to a neighbour. We explained to them about the Sardar Sarover Project and told them then govt was going to be using this land (their land) for compensation. They told us there would be a big fight if that happened. The compensation officer was not happy with what we did. He did not want us to talk to these people. The story was the same whereever the government tried to find land for compensation. We told the government we would not go to Guajrat because we do not speak the language there. We are from Maharashtra and we wanted to be compensated here. Once the Andolan started we refused all government officials from entering our village for 2-3 years. Except for the Doctor ( who came to the village only once a year anyway). The govt wanted to break the Andolan badly. They sent police, in the name of surveying the land, to harass the people. The cops killed a 15 yr old lad on Nov 19th 1993.

Savita: On lathi charge?

Keshav Bhai: No, he was killed by a bullet. On 22 Nov we organized a march with 1000s of people protesting the killing. The police attacked us with Lathis resulting in about 300-400 injured people having to go to the hospital. Some people had their arms broken, some had their legs broken. People were scared and were considering compensation again.

Earlier we had made demands for some forest land. This caught Sharad Pawar's attention who was the chief minister at that time. He got the approval of 2700 hectares of forest land. He came to the district meeting and told us "We are satisfying all your demands. You wanted forest land. And here we are approving 2700 acres of forest land for you". We agree, but how many people would be accommodated on 2700 hectares of land? Their response was that everyone would have to accommodated on this land. And was the land for agriculture or housing? It was not clear. We had told them earlier that at least 10000 hectares would be need to compensate the 33 villages in Maharashtra.The government came back with 1500 hectares more next year, but with only 4200 acres the villages would be split. Moreover we wanted 10000 hectares of forest land (without the forests having to be destroyed). We wanted all these questions to be answered before the dam was built. At this point we started protesting in different places like Bombay and Delhi. There was big protest in Harsukh against the SSP project.

Aravinda: How many people were there?

Keshav Bhai: There were lakhs of people. We announced that the SSP represents "vinash" (destruction) not "vikas" (progress). It had to be stopped. In Pherkua we protested for 36 days. There were 10000 police men, we were 10000 ourselves and then there were 10000 people hired by the Gujarat government (who were paid daily by the government). After 36 days nothing happened. Chimanbai was really strong at that time. We took a resolution that we will not be allowing any government officials into our village. We carried out several such protests. The government started using new tactics at this time. The collector in this district at the time, a man called Gill, was a ruthless. He came to the villages and started tempting people one by one. The government officials were now telling the villagers that "adivasis would go to heaven" if they accepted compensation. They were now tempting people with stories of adivasis who has made it rich after compensation. Gill tried to buy me with Rs 1 lakh, a big house and a fat salary. But I did not budge. I was in Manivilli for the satyagraha. He followed me there and tried hard to break me. I started telling everyone that Gill is a thief looting the adivasis. This was embarrassing for Gill since there was a World Bank official in the area at that time. Gill is himself with the World Bank taking a salary of Rs50000 per month because of his work in the Narmada Valley!! We were always afraid that once adivasis are relocated close to cities they will be destroyed. This was evident from the story of the adivasis displaced by the dams on the Tapti. Our fears turned out to be true. Money was never important for adivasis. But once people were relocated close to cities with 5 acres of land, they could not survive. They would sell their lands for money and then blow their money away. Let me give you an example from this village. I used to know this family. They used to live here together, they used to spend a lot of time with me. They accepted compensation from the government and relocated to Amli village. But they could not survive there. Their money got used up in a year. Then they sold some of the wood they had. Finally they sold their land way. What will they do now? A lot of people who accepted compensation are selling their lands now. For the last 2-3 years we have been thinking. The dam will make our difficult here and accepting compensation is also difficult. We have approached the government asking for solutions. When we started opposing the dam in 1987, the people from Gujarat started making attempts to destroy our villages. Dalals (middlemen) started coming from Gujarat telling the villagers they would buy the Sagwan wood from our forests. People sold their trees for a few hundred rupees and the dalals made crores from the wood .

Savita: Was this all Sagwan forests back then?

Keshav Bhai Yes, the forests stretched till Manivilli about 80-100 km away. And everything got destroyed. We tried hard to protect them. We didn't have a choice. These people from Gujarat were threating us "Why are opposing the dam? Why don't you let us cut the trees? We will beat you up if you oppose us….." After the Andolan gained strength, we started protecting whatever that has remained. We have stopped the destruction of the forests.

Savita: Are you planting trees? Are you regenerating the forests?

Keshav Bhai No, there is no need to plant trees. All you need to do is protect the land. The government is planting a lot of trees, but all the trees in the plantation are dying. The government is wasting crores of rupees. If you protect the land, the forests will come back. For example, couple of years back the villagers from Seldah accepted their compensation and left their village. There is dense forest full of wild animals in Seldah now. The land is very fertile here, the forest will grow back.